Taking Steps to Improve Our Leadership Mindset w/ Lisa Sharapata
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In this episode of Relationships at Work, Russel chats with Arbinger Institute’s CMO Lisa Sharapata on how to approach a leadership mindset to benefit our teams.
A few reasons why she is awesome — she is the Chief Marketing Officer for the Arbinger Institute, a global leadership development firm that focusing on how leaders can shift their mindset, rather than change their behavior.
Connect with Lisa, and learn more about her work…
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“Behavior comes from your mindset. How you’re thinking about something is going to drive the behavior that you show up with.”
Lisa Sharapata
Russel Lolacher: And on the show today, we have Lisa Sharapata and here is why she is awesome. She’s the Chief Marketing Officer for the Arbinger Institute, a global leadership development firm that focuses on leaders shifting their mindset rather than changing their behaviors or prioritizing one over the other anyway.
And that’s what we’re digging into today. Hello, Lisa.
Lisa Sharapata: Hey, thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here.
Russel Lolacher: Really appreciate that. Love the topic we’re digging in today. Uh, regular listeners to the show know, I am a huge proponent of mindset. So I want to hear your perspective on this, especially from the Arbinger Institute research and how they look at things, but I also know behavior has a role too. And so I want to, yeah, we’ll dig it.
We’ll dig it. I’m getting ahead of myself. I have to start with the question I ask all of my guests, Lisa, which is, what is your best or worst employee experience?
Lisa Sharapata: Yeah, I would say my best experience was at a company called Aprimo. My… I’d gone through several bosses in the course of a short period of time, but this guy came in, his name’s Ed Briel. Shout out to Ed! And he, he just came in and asked what, what do I see? What, what’s it been like, what kind of ideas do I have?
Just really cared about me, cared about my contributions, cared about what I could bring to the table. And that was a game changer.
Russel Lolacher: That’s so interesting to me too, because a lot of people will find themselves in situations like that where they have a bad leader or, or a bad culture that’s supporting that bad leader over and over again. Even if it’s not bad, maybe it’s just not working, but suddenly there’s that one leader that comes in and just clicks, just, can you remember what they might’ve done to come into the organization that was different and really, I mean, you’re, you’re giving great examples that they ask questions and they were curious to come in when there’s already a legacy of not so great. What was sort of this shining example for you going, Oh yeah, this is the kind of leadership I need.
Lisa Sharapata: Yeah. I mean, I really think that was the difference. Cause like I said we’d done mergers acquisitions. I’d seen a lot of different types of leaders and they were all coming in and it was about them. They needed to prove themselves. They didn’t really care who they stepped on. Any good idea was their idea.
You name it. And and again ed was just the opposite and he’d actually been in the organization for a long time, but as a consultant working like with external clients And so I think maybe part of it was just like his nature of his role before that was to ask questions, to be curious to to learn from what was going on before making decisions.
But you know, whatever, either way, it was a night and day approach and it, it made a huge impact on me and a huge difference. I mean, really, he took our team to greatness and everyone else had tried and failed.
Russel Lolacher: And that’s such a thing too, because cultures and organizations will blame the team. Like they’re ohhh, they weren’t productive enough. Oh, it was the… no, no, look, when we get the right leader, we are amazing. We are phenomenal. When, when everything’s clicking, we can reach those heights. Maybe it’s a complete puzzle we need to be looking at and not just pointing the blame at those that are doing the work.
Uh, I love that.
Lisa Sharapata: Yeah, absolutely. Like even at Arbinger, we work with a lot of organizations, like one of them is NASA and they’ll tell you it’s the people problems that are getting in the way of their success. They have the talent, they have the technology, they have every, everything that they could need in theory to be successful to get to Mars, whatever their mission is.
But it’s, it’s those people problems. And when you can break down those walls, the culture issues, the egos, the mindset, and behavior, that, that’s getting in the way that is, what’s going to make the difference.
Russel Lolacher: And, and I want to dig into it too, versus the larger versus smaller organizations and how they might look at this. But first I love definitions, Lisa, and I think you’ve given us a nice segue into our topic today, which is that leadership mindset over behavior. So first, I think we need to define what is a leadership mindset?
Lisa Sharapata: Well, I’ll say that’s leadership mindset, I guess is not something that I have the tip of my tongue. But one of the things that we really focus on at Arbinger that stuck with me, that I think is really critical to understanding is the difference between what we call an inward and an outward mindset and getting to this place of an outward mindset, which is really understanding the needs, objectives, challenges of others.
And putting those things first, I think, are the things that are going to help a leader create high performing teams and, and really thrive in their role.
Russel Lolacher: Where does this fit with the, with terms like service leadership and heart led leadership and like trust driven leadership, all these ways of really talking about soft skills, power skills, human skills. Are we talking about the same thing or is this, are those ways of leading within the mindset?
Lisa Sharapata: I think that there’s lots of different ways of leading. I think that this concept of the inward and outward… like servant leadership to me is, is very, is different. And you’re I think that that’s a little bit more about like the soft skills, whereas this concept of an outward mindset and being a leader with an outward mindset is really meant to you’re going to have to have hard skills and soft skills.
You’re going to have to know when to still insert yourself, but when you’re really seeing the humanity in another person, when you’re really seeing people as they matter like you do, then you’re also going to have to have the hard conversations with them. It’s, it’s still you’re going to have to show up and say Hey, this isn’t working.
We need to talk about this. But when you build it on a relationship, on a core of I see you, I understand the challenges you’re facing. We have talked about these things. Oh, think about a leader who, Oh, one of the stories I really love. Like I had like back to Ed. Ed was like, Lisa, I’m invested in you. I’m invested in your growth. I want to help you get where you’re, you’re going. And so I come out of a meeting that I just presented something in. And, Ed comes up to me in the hallway and he’s Lisa, next time you really need to drill into these bullets faster. Like boom, boom, boom.
If Ed hadn’t told me he was invested in me, didn’t tell me he cares about my future, hadn’t shown it in many other ways in the past. And he walked up to me in the hallway and said that I would have been, you know, distraught upset what up instead i’m like yes, thank you Thank you for giving me that feedback because I know you care about me And so again, I don’t think it’s like the servant or other it is really truly seeing others that they matter as much as you do. And and caring about them in a real way and that means delivering tough messages, as well as helping guide them through difficult situations, as well as getting out of their way when you need to.
Russel Lolacher: So when we first started talking about this conversation, we were digging into the fact that it’s, leadership mindset needs to be prioritized over learned behavior. So from the inside and outside approach to leadership you’re talking about, why is this more important? Why does this make you a better leader than having that learned behavior?
Lisa Sharapata: Behavior, behavior comes from your mindset. How you’re thinking about something is going to drive the behavior that you show up with. So when you think about it, it’s if someone comes in and just tells you, you need to stop doing that. Maybe it’s, you need to stop drinking coffee.
Could be your new year’s resolution, right? But if someone just comes in and tells you, you have to stop doing this thing with no context, with no and they’re going to like, here’s the program, here’s how we’re going to do it. We’re going to change you. We’re going to change this. We’re going to change this team. We’re going to change how we operate. What’s in it? Why would I want to do that? I may do it to keep my job, but it’s not going to be sustainable. I’m not doing it because I’m bought in. I’m not doing it because I’m excited about it. I’m not doing it because I really want to make that change.
I’m doing it as I’m told to. And a lot of people, myself included, don’t really respond well to that. And so it’s, you got to go deeper and really get to what drives behavior, which is mindset. And if you can help people see their part in maybe the problem was being created by doing these things. And also like how it’s going to be easier or better to achieve the kind of outcomes that they want to achieve then they’re bought in their mindset changes. And when you get that mindset shift, it’s a lot easier and more sustainable to get where you want to go.
Russel Lolacher: So as a leader, trying to understand my mindset, trying to become a better leader, how do I even know what mindset I have now? Because obviously we’re going to, if you want to shift, you have to have a baseline of what you’re trying to fix, correct, or tweak. So how do you know where you sit?
Lisa Sharapata: When I’ll say, I mean, my mindset, it’s different 20 times a day, right? It kind of depends on the situation, maybe who I’m talking to, how many times I’ve had this conversation before, how many times I’ve run into this problem. And, and so it’s usually it’s in relation to the, the situation that you’re facing and the person that you’re talking to.
But we at Arbinger, and this has been very helpful and useful to me as we have this term called In The Box. And we say there’s there’s four boxes that you can be in. And ideally you’re not in the box. If you’re out of the box, you’re in the outward mindset. If you’re in the box, you’re either going to be in a better than box. A worse than box. I need to be seen as box or an I deserve box. And so even just learning this, like having these tools, being able to start assessing, like, where am I? I, like, why am I responding this way? Having that vernacular and those tools, a part of your culture and your organization make a huge difference because Then you’re alive to, first of all, like, where am I?
And then we also have like tools and language that we can use to talk to each other. That’s not gonna immediately put someone on the defensive and help kind of assess, like, where are we starting from to try to tackle this complex problem or this new challenge? Let’s go through that first.
Let’s like understand a baseline of our collective mindset and, and work through the kinds of like things that are coming up for me, what are my triggers? What are the things that like I’ve just set off in my head and and really having a real conversation about that before, before you try to go and solve this, this new challenge or achieve this goal or realize how to get to something that is maybe not working today.
Russel Lolacher: What’s the level of, so say Arbinger’s going into an organization, helping them with the exact tools you’re talking about. What level of self awareness do those leaders need to have before they come in? Because you’re just, that’s exactly what you’re describing, but not every leader really has that level.
Do they need that before they start going down this path? Or is that something that helps them?
Lisa Sharapata: No, I think that that’s the Aha moment that needs to happen. And a lot of times that’s the, the thing, the linchpin that like flips it all around. That’s kind of Arbinger’s secret sauce, if you will.
Russel Lolacher: So are there any other things that get in the way of leaders shifting their mindset and understanding that this is a much better approach? Obviously, lack of self awareness would, would be one. But what, I mean, I can see culture. I can see, diversity. What is, what are some ways that get in the way?
Lisa Sharapata: Yeah. Well, I mean, you bring up culture and I think the thing that I’ve learned, I’ve spent a lot of time on a digging into this is that really collective mind culture, sorry. Culture, is how we work together and how we work together is our collective mindset. So, they all go hand in hand. It starts with like how I see myself in relation to you and how I’m, how am I going to show up in this scenario? And what kind of things am I going to do or not do or say or not say? Do I feel psychologically safe to bring up a new idea or to bring up a challenge that I know we’re facing? Or am I going to hold back? And, and that really, it comes from that culture, but that culture is created over time. If I have learned that when I speak up in this situation, eventually it’s going to be held against me, or people are going to be talking about behind my back, or whatever it is over time I’m going to start to shut down.
And so, those are learned behaviors over time that start to create the culture, but it stems from the mindset. If I’m working for a leader who’s on this team, there are no dumb questions. And if you see something, say something, you don’t have to have the answer that is completely different than a leader is don’t bring me a problem without bringing me a solution.
And talking bad about you when you’re like, Oh, you bring so and so had this stupid question in this meeting and, and saying what are they doing? Like they don’t even get it so it’s like completely different worlds. That’s creating different cultures. And that ultimately is going to create the, the kind of outcomes you’re going to get.
Russel Lolacher: Don’t get me started on the don’t bring me problems, bring me answers thing. That is mmmmmm. Anyway, that is a whole other conversation, but do you find that some organizations see this work as a check box exercise? Oh yeah, come on in. You’ll fix everything!
Lisa Sharapata: Absolutely.
Russel Lolacher: And then we never have… we fixed it! We never have to do this again.
Lisa Sharapata: Uh, everybody, I think everybody does that right. At some point, of course. It’s human nature, I think, to but I think what I’ve learned, I guess, over life in my career and my personal life is like, if I really want to keep something going well, I can join the gym. I can go for a year. I might look good after that year but if I don’t keep going and I just go back to my old habits after that, I’m going to probably end up actually worse off than I was before.
Russel Lolacher: How do you know the work’s being successful? You talked about Aha moments around self awareness, but how are you on the outside looking at an organization you’re helping know, you know what? They’re getting it. They are. What is, what is sort of like that tipping point for them?
Lisa Sharapata: Well, I mean, first of all, we do baseline check. So we are doing an assessment at the beginning, understanding kind of where they are on the scale of one to 10 and key categories, and we do have goals and objectives that are aligned. They’re driving that. These are the things where we really want to focus on. So that’s a big part.
And then assessing along the way and really gauging. So there’s that, but I think there’s the other part where it’s like, when you’ve got that leader who really wasn’t self aware and they have that light bulb go off, I’ll tell you, you will know when that happens. They will be a different person and usually they will express it.
Like I did not realize I was creating this problem. And those moments, I think, are really where the magic comes in when you can really see that change in someone and they are just enlightened to the havoc that they have been creating.
Russel Lolacher: I want to go back to the learned behavior piece because it, it, I still feel like it’s super valuable, but I want to understand it a bit from your perspective. So you talk about consistency, you talk about going to the gym because if you want to build the muscles, you’ve got to be consistently going over time, but that’s learned behavior.
That is, being consistent over time of I’ve learned if I do this and I keep doing this, I get these results. What I’m saying is learned behavior isn’t always bad behavior because you could be watching great leaders and modeling that. And that, oh, that’s by doing that, it equals that. So shifting mindsets, are you not incorporating some learned behavior in that to go, you know what, here’s how you, here’s how you shift your mindset. Here’s the things you have to do to make sure that mindset is shifted, that it stays shifted. Isn’t that learned behavior?
Lisa Sharapata: Yes, but if you have to also think about it, it goes back to also a shift in your mindset. So if I’m going to, if I’m going to the gym, let’s use that example, and I go for the first year and I’m starting to see these changes, that’s also going to be like, this is working.
I’m excited about this. I feel good. That’s my mindset. That is not a behavior. That is how I’m seeing the situation. That’s how I’m thinking about things. That’s a shift in how I’m thinking about going to the gym. At first, it’s probably I don’t feel like getting up. I don’t really want to go to this class.
I don’t really enjoy going to the gym. But when you start to see results, I think over time, then you start to see things differently. That’s, how you’re seeing things is what your mindset is how you’re thinking about it. So yes, they go hand in hand in my opinion
Russel Lolacher: Totally fair. And that’s, I just didn’t want to completely go, it’s all mindset. Don’t worry about that learned behavior. But to our point, learned behavior doesn’t have to be a bad thing. It can be just something that we’re…
Lisa Sharapata: Oh
Russel Lolacher: Cause everybody learns differently. Everybody learns so differently.
Lisa Sharapata: Oh absolutely, and I mean like again, we have like tools and for me going through some of these exercises that we have. They also, they create these aha moments, but then I’m like, I’m going to use that again. And that becomes a behavior, a habit. It’s something I start to put into like my team structure, the cadence that we are in the rhythm of like how we’re doing even performance evaluations or how we’re handling a difficult situation.
Because it worked, I’m going to, I’m going to keep doing it. So, so yes, I think again, to your point, those are learned behaviors, but you start to learn like what’s really adding value, what’s really making a difference. and also I think when you understand like the why behind it and you’re bought in, it makes a huge difference too.
Russel Lolacher: A lot of this we’re talking about is though we touched on culture a bit, a lot of this is focused on the individual. A lot of this is focused on leaders becoming better leaders by shifting mindset so they can see the impact on their teams and so forth. But where does others leadership impact this.
Where does environment impact this? Because… may be a better question might be, what’s their role? What’s the organization’s role in ensuring that this work isn’t just up to the individual?
Lisa Sharapata: I mean, I think there’s a few things to unpack in what you just said. First of all, change can start anywhere, but I do think in organizations, it’s usually most effective if it starts at the top at the leadership level and the leadership team does the work and shows up in that is leading by example is showing up in the way that they’re asking others to show up.
It’s a lot harder, but it’s still doable. And I’ve seen this where you’ve got like a business unit or a really strong manager over a group of people. And they can implement these kinds of changes within their team. And usually what will start to happen is people will take notice. Hey, what’s going on?
Actually, everyone’s having fun, hitting their goals, they’re doing their job, their people aren’t quitting… What are they doing? Right. And so that is another way that you can. Kind of more grassroots, like start from the, the, the ground up. But ultimately, if you’re a part of a larger organization and you really want to have this high performing culture where people are, this is a sustainable, like longterm like NASA, for example, like reaching our objectives as a larger group, everyone’s got to be bought in overtime. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Russel Lolacher: No, no.. And consistency. We’ve kind of touched on it a little bit. How do we keep this behavior consistent? Is it, so I talk a lot about leadership reviews because I’m tired of performance reviews. We talk about performance reviews all the time, but it’s a, did you do the thing? Was there things in the way of doing the thing? Did I help you do the thing? But none of it’s, Hey, did you create new leaders? Did you like, it’s nothing about the leadership quality. It’s completely about, widgets and service levels. So I see this being a key piece of this is like as a, as a review session, here’s what you learned working with groups like Arbinger. How are you implementing it? How did you implement it last week? How are you implementing it next month? What are the results? Like keeping it part of the DNA of the organization as it moves forward, as opposed to like we talked earlier, great, you went to the conference. We’ll never talk of it again. Right. Which happens far too often.
Lisa Sharapata: Yeah.
Russel Lolacher: So how, how is consistency implemented or, or recommended?
Lisa Sharapata: Well, there’s a few things that we do at Arbinger that I think work really well. First of all, say we have 36 different tools, but most of them are kind of one off things like for this scenario or that scenario, but there’s a few things that are really the core of the work that we do. And also I think need to become a part of the DNA or fabric of your culture and organization.
One is called the job map. And everyone creates that when they join. But it doesn’t just look at here’s my four major roles. It also looks at who do I impact in these roles? Who am I working the most closely with? Not just my peers, other teams, 360 analysis of my role, who I impact, how I’m going to be like getting along in that organization.
And then we have something called the 3A+ and that is something that we do monthly. And it is to be taken the lead by the employee, not by the, the leader. So, but even like I do this with my boss and I am supposed to be doing impact check ins periodically with the different people in my job map that I am and really understanding it’s not just, Oh, did we hit that number? Did we get this ad campaign out on time? But what was my impact on these other teams? Was it effective? Did I have the creative team burning the midnight oil to get it done then throw it over the fence at the sales team. And they didn’t really understand what I was doing.
Great that I hit my deadline, but let’s look at this much more holistically and the teams that I’m impacting and how this is working and it’s on me. And I need to bring back, here’s the four different areas of my job map. One of them is to generate demand. But another one is to lead my team so am I doing that effectively and how is that looking and what are people on my team saying?
Another one of them is to make sure that the sales team has what they need to succeed. Am I doing that? And so again, puts the ownership on each individual and also encouraging them to understand their impact on others. It’s not just, am I good at my job? It’s how am I impacting other teams? And also am I focusing on the right things?
So, doing that monthly, taking ownership an individual and checking your impact on others become part of the culture. It really makes a big difference.
Russel Lolacher: I love the integration between self awareness and situational awareness. I love that it’s not just about the individual realizing themself, but, and again, it’s one of the big pieces of why I even started the show is that leaders have no understanding of the impact they have, the ripple effect they have.
I, I asked the question at the beginning, what’s your best or worst experience? And nine times out of 10, they’re from 20 years ago because one leader was a jerk one time and that person still carrying that trauma with them two decades later. Sure. Because that leader was too ignorant enough or not interested or curious enough to go, Oh, I might have, I might have not shown up the right way.
Or so… I love the idea that it’s a regular check in on impact. And I can’t tell you how much that, my God, that needs to happen far more often.
Lisa Sharapata: Yeah, uh, and I’ll tell you, this is the first place I’ve ever been in my entire career that we do it regularly and it, it makes a huge difference.
Russel Lolacher: And it demonstrates to the leaders in the teams too, that you care, because if you’re doing this once a year or every two years, then what’s your turnover? Are people even around since the last time you did that check in? You could have a…
Lisa Sharapata: Oh.
Russel Lolacher: Whole 60% new staff. It doesn’t matter anymore. You didn’t fix the problems that might’ve led them to stay or retain them.
So, uh, the…
Lisa Sharapata: A hundred percent. And it also like eliminates a lot of the surprises, I mean, all along the way when you’re having open dialogue. I think about that. There’s no like awkward, Oh God, I got to sit down and have this conversation. I’m going to have to put a meeting on their camp work. We’re in constant motion.
We’re having these dialogues all the time. This is ongoing feedback. It’s not a jarring experience where someone is like a thrown a curve ball out of left field, like it is. This is a part of our ongoing day to day dynamic and we’re always like another tool we have is called Sam it’s see others, adjust efforts, measure impact, and it’s, this is kind of through the fabric of what we’re doing all, all day, every day.
And yeah, it not saying that everything’s perfect, but I think that the conversations, the right conversations are happening. It’s not once a year.
Russel Lolacher: Right. Absolutely. How do you get continuous learning into this? Because obviously you’re coming into this, you’ve taken your courses, you’re shifting your mindset. We’re talking about consistency, but we have ups and downs as leaders. We are not always inspired day to day in the operations of our work. How does continuous learning support this?
Cause I’m going, well, there’s those inspiring… Here’s a Ted Talk. I should have listened to, or a podcast hint, hint, hint. What, where’s that recommended from, from a mindset shift standpoint?
Lisa Sharapata: Well, I mean, one other thing that I’ve been doing on my team, and this would be, I would encourage anyone to do it as we go through our own course materials. Every other week. And so there’s there’s videos that kind of take you through the work and I’ll tell you, I do it with my team and then the leadership team is doing it.
And we’re in different modules, whatever, but it doesn’t matter. Like every time I’m in a module with a different group of people, the conversation is different and it’s different because. It’s a different day. It’s a different dynamic. It’s a different problem that’s top of mind that comes up. And so I think it’s just this like kind of growth mindset, if you will, of always be learning and you know being open to new ways of thinking and being curious and every time I put myself in that mindset of, you know, just being open and trying to learn new things and growing from the current situation that I’m in, I feel like I’m improving.
Sometimes I go backwards, but I think if you keep at it eventually over time you start to really make progress as a human being.
Russel Lolacher: And I think a key piece of the mindset shift is also, to your point, is recognizing that you do fail, that it isn’t all knocking it out of the park. Uh, I remember hearing from an executive who did a presentation and she talked about all the jobs she didn’t get. And it was transformative for people in the, because they had only seen executives talk about, here’s my career path. Here’s all the jobs I ever got. I’m like, you never failed in your life. Wow. You perfect specimen. Like that just doesn’t exist. As opposed to, as you’re talking here, where I’ve tried stuff, I’ve failed stuff. And the transparency of sharing that with your team and showing that you are also learning and the priority of learning is so important that they maybe need to model that behavior too. I think that’s huge. I think as, as mindset shouldn’t be just about, let’s get the thing done as a team together, but also let’s fail together. Let’s learn together as a piece of that as well.
Lisa Sharapata: Yeah, absolutely. And I’ll just add to that. I think another thing I’ve learned along the way is the power of vulnerability and I, I used to be very like, no one can see any of the things I’ve done wrong. Back to your point, like only the good stuff. It’s here’s the things I’ve achieved. Here’s what I’ve done.
Right. But when you can be real and authentic and talk about this challenge I’m facing or this thing I did wrong and I need help, like it is so amazing how powerful. That is in building relationships and learned over time. Like people actually don’t really like the person who’s always perfect. Really annoying.
Russel Lolacher: They’re completely unrelatable.
Lisa Sharapata: It’s kind of okay to have some flaws and to let people know that you’re aware of that and, and ask for help.
Russel Lolacher: How does that fit within the inside and outside approach to this leadership mindset is… because again, we’re talking about. Ourselves, but also our impacts. So how does that, how does that humanity piece fit into it?
Lisa Sharapata: Yeah. I mean, it kind of goes back to this well, you’re saying like being in the box, right? And if I. Need to be seen as that I’m perfect or I think I’m better than everyone else. Guess what? Oh, I’m gonna be pretty unrelatable and people are gonna be pretty resistant to me. On the flip side if I feel like I’m worse than you know I’m gonna show up in a way that is not going to be very inspiring. People aren’t going to be very motivated by my energy and how I’m like leading if I, if I don’t think I’m as good as maybe the other people on the leadership team, or even the other people in the room.
And so this notion of being like, in the box, just, it really holds us back. It creates a lot of our own, our own problems for ourselves that we just… we can’t get out of our own way. And then I think the, the next most natural tendency from that is to blame other people. And so once you start to get into that vicious cycle, there’s nowhere to go but down.
I feel like you just start spiraling down. So now this idea of being outward Yes, you know seeing other people that their needs and challenges matter as much as yours do but also being alive too And like self aware like you were saying of what triggers me? When do I show up in a need to be seen as way or one of these other boxes I was talking about.
And I think the more you can catch yourself in the moment and even just admit you know what, I did not show up the way I should have in this situation. I’m sorry. I, I messed this up. Can we start over or whatever? If you can put your ego aside and, and admit when you’ve made a mistake again, back to being relatable and vulnerable again, that those are the kinds of leaders, at least for me, that I want to follow and that I’m excited to get behind.
Russel Lolacher: You sort of hinted at it earlier that this being an Arbinger, obviously as an organization that focuses on this is going to have its own impacts on its own employees, like yourself. So how has a mindset shift, this leadership mindset shift, where do you been your aha moments to get a little personal, how it was been as sort of an aha moments before you came to this organization versus being in this organization that looks at things this way, what was your tipping point?
Lisa Sharapata: I think my tipping point was honestly the role I had before this. And I was in B2B tech for over a decade and then gotten into the CMO role. And I just, I, I hit a wall with the culture and the leadership in the organization that I was at. And it was just a constant like walking on eggshells situation that was really toxic and unhealthy.
And I just, I hit a point, there was like a day in a conversation where I was like, I’m not doing this anymore. It is, it is not productive. It’s not healthy. It’s not in line with who I am as a person and I need to make a change.
And so ultimately I ended up at Arbinger. I’d never heard of Arbinger before, but I think what’s resonated with me and kind of the aha moments when I started to go through the work was starting to understand these concepts and like real tangible ways with, with real like words and definitions and tools to back them up.
And then being a part of an organization where we actually do use our own work in a meaningful way has, it does make it a lot easier to be what we call like a word in her mindset, but not to say that when we all are human and we all show up in inward ways. Could be a couple times a day. It could be a whole day. It could be a week but it’s the fact that you’ve got people around you who care about you who also have the tools and understanding of what’s going on and we’ve created this culture where there’s this constant feedback and there’s ways that we can work with each other and talk to each other about these things that can help get us out of that.
And our vendors help thousands of organizations do this. And so I’ve seen it and we’ve got lots of success stories with it. And when I, when I see what some of these organizations have come through, I think there’s also been some Aha moments, even just in that, and that I can relate and that maybe been… we work with the military. We work with a lot of government contracts. We work in manufacturing. Like this is applicable across the board. So that humanity piece, I think that when you, you see that, like a common thread in every thing and how it’s, we’re all connected in the same ways.
Like again, for me, those were kind of those Aha moments where I was like, yeah, you know what this, could apply this to any situation I’ve ever pretty much been in my entire life. And glean so much insight out of having these tools in my belt.
Russel Lolacher: Thanks, Lisa. I really appreciate this conversation. So we’re going to glean one more thing from you to wrap this up. In your mind, what’s one simple action people can do right now to improve their relationships at work?
Lisa Sharapata: I think the biggest thing is just to ask yourself what is it like to work with me?
Russel Lolacher: And then do something with the results.
Lisa Sharapata: And we’ll absolutely, yeah, I’m not saying it stops there. I mean, you just asked me what to do to start.
Russel Lolacher: Yeah, no, it’s a great, it’s a great question I wish more people asked. Yeah. Yeah. Because nobody knows your colleagues don’t know. Your bosses don’t know. Only your team has any concept of that. Uh, thank you for that. That is Lisa Sharapata. She is the Chief Marketing Officer for Arbinger Institute, a global leadership development firm, focusing on leadership’s shifting their mindsets rather than changing their behaviors.
Thank you so much for being here, Lisa.
Lisa Sharapata: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
